Category: Interview

1. You’ve been active for quite a few years, and your musical journey dates back to the early ’90s. Many people know you primarily from Wurgilnõ and Vergankelijk, but you have much more in your history, such as Inverted Pentagram. Can you tell us about your musical career and how it has developed over the years?

My musical journey began, like many guys in the regio of Limburg (South of the Netherlands) at the time, at a young age with a brass band. At one point, we had three generations playing in the same band: my grandfather on horn, my father on bass, and myself on tuba. After my grandfather passed away, we stopped, and in 1989, I switched
to bass guitar. In the summer of 1990, the predecessor of Belphegor was formed, which was renamed Inverted Pentagram in 1992. In 1991 we started Corpusculum as a side project with some members of Belphegor. In 1996, I decided to stop with Inverted Pentagram because things weren’t running smoothly anymore, and there was too little progress.

In 2000, I was asked to collaborate on A Challenge of Honour: a project that combined industrial with folk influences. I worked on that until 2012, with my last performance being at Summer Darkness in Tivoli, Utrecht. After that, I started writing music again for Corpusculum, and since then, I have focused entirely on black metal. This resulted in
several demos and, eventually, a full album at the end of that year.

During the 2020 lockdowns, I decided to start a Dutch-language project called Mergelland, with the main theme being Limburgian legends and myths. This project evolved into Wurgilnō in 2022.

2. You’ve witnessed the rise of black metal up close. How do you look back on the early days compared to the scene today? What, in your opinion, has changed—both positively and negatively? And what is, for you, the essence of ’90s black metal, and is that essence still attainable today?

My first encounter with black metal was in 1986 when I saw the Seven Dates of Hell concert by Venom on Sky Channel. It made a huge impression on me at the time. Through VARA’s Vuurwerk and magazines like Aardschok, I quickly discovered a whole new world, with bands like Bathory and Celtic Frost—still my favorite bands.

When I bought my first guitar in 1989, I didn’t initially know how to approach it. That changed when I ordered the Medieval Prophecies EP by Samael. That record made me realize that music didn’t have to be complicated to sound powerful. From then on, that became my guideline: it has to sound heavy to my ears—the rest doesn’t matter much.

When the second wave really started breaking through in 1990, with a flood of new music coming through tape trading and demo exchanges, you could feel that something special was happening. We were entering a new era. Especially the demos from Enslaved, Emperor, Rotting Christ, and Necromantia made a big impact on me. The first album that truly grabbed me by the throat was A Blaze in the Northern Sky by Darkthrone. That album felt like a sign: our time had come!

The biggest difference with the past, I think, is that the ‘romance of discovery’ is gone. Back then, tape trading and writing and exchanging with people all over the world were essential parts of the scene. I would receive packages and letters from all corners of the world every day – sometimes people would even come to the door to collect stamps. Nowadays, you just open Spotify or Bandcamp, and the algorithm tells you what you might like. Contact with bands happens via chat or email, and it’s a matter of seconds instead of waiting weeks for a letter with a trade list. Sometimes, I miss that era. Personally, I’ve always been purely focused on the sound – either I think something sounds heavy, or I don’t. Occasionally, I change my mind about a band. Mayhem or Burzum, for example, never really interested me – too much drama and theatrics, and I still don’t connect with that.

What strikes me is that many bands today are going back to the ’90s sound. That’s fine by me because that style is closest to my heart. But at the same time, it means that, with a few exceptions, there’s not much progression in the genre.

3. You’re a multi-instrumentalist and do everything yourself: guitar, bass, keyboards, vocals, and drum programming. How did that come about? And how do you experience working on studio albums alone compared to playing in a full band?

It’s mainly due to a lack of fellow musicians- the black metal scene here in the region is practically non-existent. Additionally, my full-time job makes it hard to keep regular days or weekends free for rehearsals.

During the years I played with A Challenge of Honour, I taught myself how to make music on my own. I now apply that knowledge to my current material.

The biggest advantage is that, as soon as I have an idea, I can immediately go into my small studio to turn it into music. The biggest downsides are the lack of social interaction, writing songs together, and exchanging ideas. As a solo artist, you often miss the constructive criticism you need to stay challenged. Fortunately, I have a network of
people around me who can provide that feedback.

4. Do you record all your music yourself? Do you also handle mixing and mastering, or do you work with others? How does that process look?

5. What has Wurgilnõ released so far, and what does the name Wurgilnõ mean?

Wurgilnō has two albums, an EP, and a South American release where the debut and EP were combined. Originally, the first CD, De Doden Rusten Niet in Vrede, was intended as a demo tape, but Fetzner Death Records wanted to release it as a CD – and who am I to say ‘No’ to that?

The name Wurgilnō is an Old Saxon word that means “body on a gallows.” This is based on a family story about one of my ancestors, who was sentenced as a Bokkenrijder (a notorious bandit) and hanged, with his body left hanging until it fell down by itself. In black metal, it doesn’t get much more grim than that.

6. The music of Wurgilnõ heavily draws from the first and, to a slightly lesser extent, second waves of black metal. What attracts you to that raw sound? And which bands or artists have inspired you the most?

That raw, often simple sound has always appealed to me. I’m not a fan of solos or fiddling around— the rougher, the better. If something sounds heavy, there’s nothing left to improve. The gritty, unpolished sound of bands like Hellhammer, Bathory, and Sarcofago has always affected me more than the polished albums that came later. That’s still the case. Take, for example, the first four albums by Amenra—I think they’re amazing. You can hear the crackling, the noise, and even the mistakes, and that’s what makes an album feel organic.

As for inspiration, I would mention Bathory, Celtic Frost, early Samael, and Sarcofago, but also bands like Beherit and the old Greek scene have had a huge influence on me.

7. How does your music come about? Do you start with a specific feeling or idea?

With Wurgilnõ, I always put together a list of local myths, legends, or historical events from the Limburg region in Belgium and the Netherlands. I then do extensive research into these topics, which forms the basis for my lyrics. Part of it is based on that research, but I also add my own fictional elements.

Musically, it usually starts with a riff, a feeling, or an emotion. From there, I build and try to keep the music as exciting and varied as possible. I’m someone who loves repetitive riffs that go on for a long time, but I have to remind myself not to make them last too long.

8. You choose to write your lyrics in Dutch. Why that choice? And do your lyrics have a specific Dutch or even Limburgian theme?

I actually did everything in English for thirty years, but I discovered that I express myself better in my native language. Plus, we’ve been listening to a lot of Norwegian music since the ’90s, and that was never a problem. Many of my favorite Dutch bands sing in Dutch, and for foreign fans, it has the same exotic appeal as Norwegian, French, or Spanish does for us.

The theme of Wurgilnõ is primarily focused on Belgian and Dutch region of Limburg. This region has a very rich history, and as a history nerd, I found it fascinating to delve into it. There’s more to Limburg than marl and Bokkenrijders!

9. Your latest project, Vergankelijk, with Joris from Nether on vocals, recently released an EP. This project has a very specific theme. Can you tell us more about that? How did you and Joris come together, and how does Vergankelijk differ musically from Wurgilnõ?

Musically, Vergankelijk is less black metal and leans more towards doom/sludge, with a hint of black metal here and there. It’s all about the feeling, not about sticking to a specific genre—the lyrics of Joris are intense enough.

10. What stands out about Vergankelijk is the prominent and beautifully crafted basslines. Are there certain bassists who inspire you, or does that just come naturally in your playing?

I’ve always found Peter Hook of Joy Division/New Order to be a very influential bassist. Although he mainly plays a Bass VI – a cross between a guitar and a bass – that’s an instrument that’s still on my wishlist. For me, a bass doesn’t necessarily have to be a background instrument; it can take the foreground. Something that the guys from Necromantia understood very well.

11. You also run Merg & Been Records. What does the label specialize in? What kinds of bands do you release? And how is it to run a label in an era of streaming and an overabundance of monthly releases?

Merg & Been grew out of Tenebrae Sumus Records, where I used to release tapes for various international and national acts. For example, I’ve done releases for Salqui, Sacred Son, Apothecary, and Satanic Death. Since Merg & Been, I’ve mainly used it for my own music and focus solely on tapes. The next release will be the Galghe (black metal) tape, followed by Broken Ground (sludge/doom), which looks like a tape but is actually a USB drive.

The market is saturated; nowadays, you have to rely on your loyal followers. That’s why I always work in small editions. Streaming is an inevitable, dark force, but fortunately, the metal scene is still a scene that values physical releases.

13. You operate deep in the south of the Netherlands. Is there even a black metal scene there? And since you’re so close to Belgium and Germany, do you have many connections with the Dutch scene and bands across the border?

I mainly have connections within the Dutch and Belgian scene. The German scene feels a bit less accessible, even though my German is quite good because I live only a few kilometers from the border. There isn’t really a black metal scene anymore; there are still a few bands here and there, but it’s not what it used to be. However, that doesn’t matter,
and thanks to technology, it’s no longer a major problem in 2025.

Interview: Floris

But the charm of our collective is that I can call Zwotte Kring my home. Like-minded people, everyone with a vision of their own and a skill of their own. To be a part of this group of people and ideas suits me well, we can learn from one another and share our critiques with one another.

On our Zwotte Kring platform we interview people who we find interesting and appreciate for their commitment to the scene. Today we pay attention to Daan, the newest member of Zwotte Kring

1. Can you introduce yourself?

I’m Daan Bleumink, 31 years old and I have been writing music in the black-and death metal style for about 17 years now.

I started as a guitarist and fairly soon after I picked up the drums. The only thing which has always interested me was creating fast-paced and dark music. Being able to express myself and immerse myself in music was the main reason I became versed in multiple instruments.

A few of my current favourite bands and influences are: 1349, Hate Forest, Thy Darkened Shade, Golgothan Remains, Belphegor, and so many more, it would be impossible to name them all.

2. How did you end up in black metal?

Ever since I was young I was thrashing along to Rammstein, but when I got a little bit older the urge to discover harder and faster music took over.

It was through Beavis and Butt-head that I found these extremes. During these episodes they tore into music videos and one of those clips was Heartwork by Carcass. I instantly fell in love with the fast-paced drums and the ripping guitars. From there on out I’ve spent years devouring everything by Carcass, especially ‘Symphonies Of Sickness’ is a record I still enjoy very much after all this time.

During a class (second year in highschool) I was so bored that I was just mindlessly scrolling through Youtube, and that’s when I came across One By One from Immortal. Man, that’s where a whole other world opened up for me. The sonic violence, the whole image… the drums! Just incredible.

Ever since that moment I dove into the realms of black metal, and haven’t left. So much so that I don’t listen to anything else but black, death and all crossover genres between.

3. Your style fits the one we call 2nd wave black metal, if I’m correct. Both the Scandinavian style as the more primitive and raw Slavic styles. Besides that you currently experiment in the down-tuned cavernous blackened death metal. What –as a musician and listener– is it you look for in extreme metal exactly?

4. You play multiple instruments, did you take classes for this or are you self-taught?

When I was 14 I started playing the guitar. I took one year of private classes and pretty much only practiced techniques that would allow me to play music from bands like Death, Immortal and Mayhem through tabs. My guitar was practically glued to my hands and I averaged about 6 hours a day on practice and playing. From the very start I also began to create my own music.

During those times I made use of a drumming-pc, but my true desire was being able to create everything myself. That’s where I acquired a cheap electronic drum kit and began playing. My itch wasn’t truly scratched through, because I missed the bombastic sound of a proper drum kit, so eventually I purchased one for myself. Alongside that I gathered some cheap microphones and mixing equipment and that’s where I delved into the world of recording and mixing music.

It was quite a journey of falling and crawling back up and I taught myself a fair few things, mainly because I never took lessons. I just watched my idols (Frost, Dominator, Bloodhammer) and tried things for myself. Having fun was the biggest factor! 

Because the tracks that I wrote sounded empty, I took up bass guitar as well. I started off by quite simply playing lower bass lines along to the guitars, but by now I’ve realised that the bass guitar can make or break a track. Nowadays I spend a lot of time creating solid bass lines that accentuate the structure of a song rather than merely filling up empty space.

5. You are known as the drummer from Hellevaerder. This band comes across as quite unique to me. The music is melodic, but not too polished, and has interesting bass lines, memorable compositions and a fantastic front woman. The live performance is very strong: the band dressed in black, and Miranda all in white. Can you tell us something about Hellevaerder?

Hellevaerder tells our life stories, with an extra touch of darkness. The so-called ‘call of the void’, the attractive force of darkness. And the opposite of this; the fear of taking the leap, the pull to the light. This duality of forces is a recurring theme in our music.

About 95% of the music and lyrics were previously written by me, with the other band members giving it their final touches. However this dynamic has changed quite a bit since this year. We now have a stable and complete lineup with incredibly talented and intelligent musicians who have a lot to offer. Because of this, our upcoming record will be the first one on which every member has individually contributed to the writing process. We are all facing the same direction now, and with our theme and image established, this was the right moment to fully cooperate on this album. And we all grasped this moment, together.

Celebrate life, worship death!

6. How did the band originate, what was your goal, and what lies in the future?

As I’ve mentioned previously, I had been writing my own music for quite some time now. This is where ‘Throne Of Time’ (ToT) came into existence. After a few shows and ideas for a new record I wrote two songs: ‘Langs eindeloze paden’ and ‘Heksensabbat’. 

The lyrics were in Dutch and written by my good friend and artist A.A.W.R. — However at that time ToT’s guitarist-and frontman wasn’t interested in black metal sung in Dutch, but his girlfriend at the time sure was.

Miranda Visser, what a voice! 

After she heard these tracks she was instantly excited, and because ToT suffered from differences in what our goals with this band were, we decided to create a new group with a second guitarist, and the bassist from ToT. A.A.W.R. and myself were picking our brains for a very long time on what the band should be called… until she suddenly shouted, ‘Hellevaerder!’

Our goal has always been very clear: to create filthy Dutch black metal. Loud, fast, and mean. Until this day this goal has been met, and we will continue doing so.

After a few changes in the lineup we have had a solid foundation for the past few years now. With this lineup we recorded ‘Verloren vertellingen’, and next year our second full-length will be released. Of course we would love to convey this record in a live setting and are aiming to gather some fresh souls to corrupt at these performances.

7. As drummers, we both complain about playing live to each other, where we give it our all until our hands bleed and our vision starts to blur. But afterwards, we can enjoy ourselves a lot. How do you prepare mentally and physically for such a performance?

For years I only drummed during Hellevaerder rehearsals, as I knew these songs by heart. It was just that there wasn’t much improvement in my game, which isn’t all that strange when you only drum about eight times a year.

8. Is Hellevaerder the only live band in your arsenal? You’re a multi-instrumentalist playing in several solo projects such as Duindwaler, or other projects where you play multiple instruments. Can you lift the veil a little on your other projects?

At the moment, Hellevaerder is indeed my only live-performing band, and as a drummer I’d like to keep it that way for now. I’m open to playing live as a guitarist and vocalist, however. But for now I have to find a balance and the time between all my other projects.

In the first quarter of 2025 a limited release of Throne Of Time will be unveiled, one which will contain both EP’s and several new tracks. This time I recorded, mixed and mastered everything myself, with the exception of a few guest performances by other Hellevaerder members. It’s the closing of a chapter in which we showcase the growth of both musician and human being, in nearly one and a half hours of music.

For my solo-project Duindwaler there’s lots of material lying around, and I’m currently planning to move this band forward. I can assure you that the next release will be an absolute banger, faster and viler than ‘In het Heemskerks duin’. 

Together with Hellevaerder guitarist Bas Cuperus, another record is currently in the process of being created. Our writing sessions have reached their end-stage and our goal is to release a full-length in 2025.

Quite recently I was asked to record the drums for a project called ‘Dwalend’, with our very own Gerhans Meulenbeld on guitar. The music and ideas for this endeavour were quite appealing to me and I have since begun to record the drums for this upcoming EP.

Lastly, a record in the death/cavern death style is in the pipeline, however this is something I only work on when I have space and time, so I can’t really say when you’ll hear more about this.

9. What inspires you while writing lyrics?

Life itself, in a few shades darker than actuality, warped images of the brain and mind dragged through a filthy, disgusting black sludge. History is also a very interesting thing, there are so many stories out there to be told.

10. Zwotte Kring is closed off to new members. With an exception we managed to lure you in because we feel such a great connection. How do you view this collective?

Every musician knows a few other musicians. But the charm of our collective is that I can call Zwotte Kring my home. Like-minded people, everyone with a vision of their own and a skill of their own. To be a part of this group of people and ideas suits me well, we can learn from one another and share our critiques with one another. We can improve on what we already know, and do this in a great environment of harsh metal. We can build friendships and really push ourselves while doing so. It’s not simply a group of musicians who happen to be friends, it’s a group of people with the same vision.

Long live Zwotte Kring!

11. Black metal in the Netherlands and Belgium, what’s the state of it, in your opinion?

What these two small countries can provide in terms of such quality is quite bizarre. Especially in the Netherlands the proficiency has grown exponentially, the last few years have unleashed some true diamonds in the rough. The scene remains small, but the love for this genre is immeasurable.

It’s major that a great deal of attention goes out to the more underground bands too. The overall level of quality and skill is very high in my opinion, and it’s only continuing to improve. The only downside is that I don’t have the time to listen to everything, the supply of quality is simply too large.

12. What does the musical future hold for Daan?

As I’ve mentioned earlier, there’s enough in the pipeline. The one new thing for me however is that I have to place my trust in the craft and knowledge of others. Instead of being a ‘jack of all trades’ and focusing completely on my own thing. Writing music, it’s more fulfilling now because I focus on what I actually like.

At the same time that gives me more opportunity to fill my already overflowing agenda. Everyone has their strong sides and to make use of those is what gives music more layers, depth and dimension. A beautiful thing about music is that you’re never done learning.

Interview: Floris

Bram Bruyneel is one of the most talented artists in Belgium at the moment. He already decorated many Zwotte Kring albums with beautifully drawn covers. He also supplied the logos for, among others, The Color of Rain and Meslamtaea. It was high time to check in with him and ask about the countless projects past and present, his motivations and the developments in his busy life.

1. Hey Bram. Thank you for making some time for us. You’ve been involved in various Zwotte Kring projects for quite some time now. How did that happen?

First and foremost, thanks for this conversation! If I go back in time and am not mistaken, it all started with Marquis, a project by Devi (Hisgen). I was asked to design the logo and cover artwork for the full length “Mitclan” in 2015. Man, how time flies! I have many fond memories of this design. This was also one of my first designs that I made in black ballpoint pen. After this, Devi came along with another project “Teitan” for which I was also allowed to come up with the logo.

Years later I came into contact with Floris for Schavot and we immediately had a very pleasant relationship and conversations about music, art and everyday things. Personally, I am a big Schavot fan, I think the debut album “Galgenbrok” is magical! He also challenged me to do a digital painting for his next album with pastel, inspired by the works of Anton Pieck. This is one trait of the Zwotte Kring, they challenge people in a very positive way to get the most out of it!

After a while designing for Schavot I also came into contact with Asgrauw and Void Wanderer Productions where I had the honor of doing a shirt design for both + the cover of their sampler CD, which also gets many spins here. The last projects for the Zwotte Kring were designs for Meslamtaea and The Color Of Rain. Bands that also give me enormous satisfaction and happiness to be allowed to design. Gerhans is another person who can bring out the best in someone! A true musical talent. I hope that this fruitful collaboration will continue for a long time!

2. You are of course proud of every artwork you deliver. Still, you’ll probably have a few favorites? Are there certain works of art that you are just a little extra proud of? Certain projects that are still fresh in your memory in terms of depth or communication?

3. How did you actually get into metal? What were your reasons to start using your talents in this culture? What is your own favorite style of music?

I got into the metal world thanks to my father. It was literally and figuratively instilled in me. On my tenth birthday he took me to a Kiss concert and I can still remember their show vividly! The cap from the show that I received then still hangs in my drawing room. After this we spent a lot of time in the Biebob and the Trix (formerly Hof Ter Loo). As a result, my interest quickly shifted to black and death metal. Immortal, Marduk, Limbonic Art all had a very big impact on me. The Xmass festivals etc. became an annual tradition. Here I got to know many bands (Deicide, Bal – Sagoth, Aborted, Dying Fetus…)

What especially appealed to me about these genres was their artwork/merchandise… For me it was fantastic to go to school with a Bloodthirst long sleeve from Cannibal Corpse or with the Panzer Division shirt from Marduk. Of course, all my school books were decorated with album artwork and logos of all my favorite bands. The teachers at the time did not always like them. My preference for old medieval designs developed very quickly.

I ended up in the “design world” very spontaneously. A local band liked my drawings and thought they could use them for our shirts. After this the ball slowly started rolling to where I am now. I have an extremely varied taste in music genres. If I’m in the mood for metal, I’ll primarily go for black and death metal. I also really enjoy listening to prog, heavy metal, etc., but the poetic music of Frank Boeijen can also move me. The people who know me very well know that I also have a huge guilty pleasure and that is Taylor Swift… now I imagine that a lot of readers will frown their eyebrows but I can’t help it, my playlists are also very varied. From “Hammer Smashed Face” to “Shake it Off”. The confusion in the eyes of the people around me always makes me laugh.

4. In an earlier interview with The Color of Rain’s Gerhans Meulenbeld we could read that he sees you as a kind of ‘secret’ fourth band member. Does it feel that way for you too? How do you try to internalize the identity of a band you work for?

It certainly feels that way! The collaboration with TCOR is very precise. Personally, I am not the fastest draftsman/painter, but we keep each other informed of every step. From sketches to updates and finished product. I really feel part of the band this way.

As I said before: I fully appreciate the constant challenge to go further creatively and to experiment with new techniques. First of all, I have to connect with the music and the idea behind the band (theme, lyrics, etc.). Only then can I convert those ideas into drawings and paintings. The band also gets to see my vision in this way. The merging of different opinions then forms the identity of the band.

5. You have delivered colorful covers for both Schavot and The Color of Rain. A striking thing because most of your work is fairly monochrome. How did that happen?

That colorful collaboration came about because Floris saw something in me that I myself didn’t know was present yet. My preference for dark, black and monochrome works will always be there, but it is very nice that I can now turn to other mediums to put my vision and thoughts on canvas. I’ll be honest, the color designs are in collaboration with my lovely wife. Because I am mainly used to thinking in monochrome designs, I sometimes have difficulty translating my vision into color. If I get stuck with that, I ask my wife. She then gives me instructions about her vision of how she would approach it.

This has now resulted in some colorful designs, such as bringing life to the fire of the Schavot funeral pyre and the color patterns on the back cover of Fleddy Melculy. So expect even more colorful designs in the future!

6. Can you tell us something about some projects you are currently working on? Are there bands that you have a longer agreement with for a series of albums or do you work one album at a time?

7. You have recently also started working in the tattoo industry. How did you end up there? What style can we expect your ink to be?

I also fell into this very spontaneously. This is thanks to my in-laws. My father-in-law wanted an extension of an original tattoo of his so I made a sketch/design for that (like a good son-in-law does who can draw haha). They then ended up at Cee’s Pendulum Swing Tattoo. Cedric is an artist par excellence and a true Jedi master with ink. During his tattoo appointment, the subject of a ‘tattoo apprentice’ came up and that Cedric would like to have one in the future. My mother-in-law let me know immediately and believed this was something for me. I saw this as a golden opportunity and sent him a message that evening to introduce myself.

There was an immediate friendly click that over the months grew into a professional mindset to convert my drawing skills into tattoos. I am currently still a student aka padawan (my nickname in the shop) who eagerly and enthusiastically accepts all opportunities. Regarding the style; you can expect a continuation of my dark, obscure medieval woodcut drawings that I will translate into tattoos with a twist that is my own.

8. You work a lot with both Dutch and Belgian bands. Do you notice a difference between the northern and southern neighbors in terms of how metal lives? Does Belgium also have collectives such as the Zwotte Kring? Which bands from Belgium would you recommend when it comes to the heavier styles?

Personally, I don’t notice many differences between the Dutch and Belgian bands that I design for, although Dutch bands are often a bit more direct in their approach. Something that I certainly do not experience as negative. If the passion is there and I notice that there is a gigantic driving force behind the band and I fully agree with the theme and story behind the music, then this is simply great.

I have never thought about whether there are collectives present or consciously looked for Belgian collectives, but I do know of one, namely The Nox Entity with bands such as: Rituals Of The Dead Hand, Entartung, Lhaäd, Wolven and Nox. Bands that I definitely recommend checking out!

9. Thank you so much for your time. We hope to enjoy your work and collaboration for a long time to come!

This is very much appreciated! Thank you also for your interest and very nice cooperation!

Interview: Gerhans

I wanted to stop doing it a few years ago. Two releases, Shagor and Meslamtaea (Geketend in de Schaduw van het Leven), were already in production, they were still to come and then it could just stop. Suddenly the Shagor LP sold out in a few weeks, Meslamtaea also did very well and Alkerdeel asked us if we wanted to co-release their upcoming album with Consouling Sounds. At such a moment you can float along on the success and the bright prospects.

On our Zwotte Kring platform we interview people who we find interesting and appreciate for their commitment to the scene. Such a person is Jo Versmissen from Antwerp, Belgium. He is the man behind Babylon Doom Cult Records (BDC) which has done a lot for the scene. Unfortunately, it could be read on social media that BDC is taking a step back.

1. Hello Jo, thanks for your time! Can you introduce yourself? Who are you and how did you end up in the world of black metal?

Hello, thank you for your interest in my story. I’m Jo Versmissen and I run Babylon Doom Cult Records. About thirty years ago I was introduced to extreme music through my cousin and a friend of my sister. From the usual suspects such as Metallica, Iron Maiden and Pantera, it went to Sepultura to Morbid Angel and Deicide. Until I bought the Blackend Vol. 1 collection cd. I was sold to it immediately! Less than a week later, CDs of Immortal and Impaled Nazarene, among others, were on the doormat and I was walking around in a Pure Holocaust shirt.

2. BDC started in 2017. What prompted you to set up the label? In a short time, BDC has become a big name, especially among the open-minded audience. How did you achieve this?

I had been active for several years booking live shows in Antwerp. First just on my own, later in the OnderGronds collective. This way you naturally get to know the people in the bands you book. For example, I have booked shows for Alkerdeel, Terzij De Horde, Laster, Oranssi Pazuzu and Aluk Todolo. When I switched from employee to freelance status in 2017, I included things such as releasing music, organizing performances, etc. in my company’s activities with the idea “who knows one day…” There were no concrete plans yet. One evening I gave Pede van Alkerdeel a lift from Bruges to Ghent and this came up. He immediately said that De Speenzalvinge did not yet exist on LP. That’s what got the ball rolling.

The next releases were Kozmotron, Speed Queen, Witch Trail, Bütcher and Marginal. Perhaps the breadth of genres appeals to the open-minded music lover? There wasn’t really a plan behind it. For example, if I heard the Willie Darktrousers tape, I simply asked the label (Tartarus) to ask the band if they were interested in a vinyl release. Everything was possible, everything was allowed. Later I tried to get a bit more of a line into the releases, although I could never resist simply a good release.

I think the bottom line is that you should follow your gut feeling. If you don’t work authentically, you won’t get there or it will quickly become an assignment instead of a hobby.

3. BDC’s roster mainly consists of bands with an ‘edge’. Many bands operate in the atmospheric / post-black / punk-crust corner or are experimental. But you also dare to release very traditional black metal. What is the deciding factor for you to release a release, and what could be a reason why a release affects you?

Some albums just make something happen. For example, if I put on Bat Magic or Invunche, I automatically start headbanging. Unru stirs emotion in me every time. When music triggers such an automatic response, I know it’s good.

4. A vinyl re-release of ‘Emperors of the Night’ by the legendary Flemish band Avatar has been released on BDC. The keyboardist in question, Izzy, is now part of our Zwotte Kring collective and a member of Meslamtaea, which is also released via BDC. Avatar brings back beautiful memories for many older black metal fanatics among us. Avatar played a lot in the nineties with Flemish bands such as Ancient Rites and Enthroned. How do you look back on the golden years of black metal?

What are the “golden years of black metal”? For me personally, it dates from around 1993 when bands like Emperor, Mayhem, Enslaved, Samael, Abigor, Sigh, etc. came up with legendary albums until roughly the end of the 1990s.

As far as I’m concerned, black metal has become more and more “normal”. When I listened to “In The Nightside Eclipse” as a 16-year-old, I was overwhelmed by its mystery: the sound, the singing, the stories about church burnings… Everything took place much more in your
head than it does today. Now you take your smartphone out of your pocket, look up something and everything becomes much more “tangible”. The wonder makes way for something mundane. There are several reasons for this. You lose some imagination as you get older, you become familiar with black metal and the mystery becomes less. Bands today also have many more predecessors, meaning that more influences unconsciously creep into music making their own brews less innovative. In the mid to late 1990s, almost everything was innovative, which also makes you more stimulated. Live shows also used to be much less professionally organized, which made it all more underground and sometimes created a dangerous atmosphere.

The golden years of black metal had some assets that have been somewhat toned down today. Every now and then my sense of amazement rears its head again. This can happen with new music, but also sometimes when I play “In The Nightside Eclipse” or visit a performance that completely captivates me. Or, for example, the two Müür releases have captivated me for several weeks. My tape deck can play two tapes continuously one after the other. That way I listened to those two tapes on repeat for days.

5. In recent years, the Flemish black metal scene seems to be increasingly present. What’s in your tap water, why has your scene become so strong?

I think the possibilities for recording music and releasing it into the world are much greater today than they were about 20 years ago. There is no longer any need for an expensive studio to deliver a professional product. This provides much more output, which will automatically produce more good music. I don’t actually know whether the scene is really that much stronger than it used to be. There are many good bands, but for me the bands that stand head and shoulders above the rest are the veterans such as Lugubrum or Alkerdeel. To be honest, I personally like the Dutch scene more with bands like Laster, Invunche, Turia, Fluisteraars, … We have also released quite a lot of Dutch bands with Invunche, Witte Wieven, Hagetisse, Ceremoniële Walging, Wolves In The Condo, Shagor, Alburnum, Dinbethes, Meslamtaea, Freja, Gott, Helleruin, The Dreaded Disease, Mist and Traveler. Perhaps more than Belgian music if I sum it up like that.

6. Black metal is now more popular than ever. But times have changed compared to the 1990s, when much was still analogue and no one had mobile phones or laptops. Nevertheless, many bands continue to stick to the classic style and theme of black metal, while there doesn’t seem to be much mysticism anymore. How do you view the current scene? Do you think black metal needs to be reinvented or is there still a place for the old style?

For me, there is especially room for good music. Whether it is an old style like Moenen Of Xezbeth or something more modern like DHG shows on Black Medium Current makes little difference to me. For me black metal doesn’t have to have a satanistic approach. If someone thinks it should be that way, that’s fine too, of course, in the end it’s just a name and the music doesn’t change by calling it a different genre. So I consider Frost by Enslaved to be black metal.

I like the diversity of the scene. I think a band like Krallice is great. Their music is clearly based on black metal, but still creates a completely different feeling. Or Infidel Art by Sigh, perhaps my favorite album of all time. That album alone contains doom, black metal, power metal, bombast, punk… and it works because the songs are good. Actually, I often find traditional, riff-based black metal the most boring.

8. Do you still remain active in the scene in some other way? I understand that you organize shows and are active in the background at Roadburn, among other things?

In the past I have regularly organized shows, ranging from small unknown bands to bigger names such as Aluk Todolo or Altar Of Plagues. I also spent some time in OnderGronds, an Antwerp collective that operated in the same way with shows by small bands but also presented larger packages in Antwerp. For example, Svartidaudi, Spectral Voice, Aura Noir, Anaal Nathrakh and Dodheimsgard have all passed by. At the moment I’m not really active in organizing show anymore. Occasionally I provide music between and after performances.

There is certainly an affinity with Roadburn, but I am not involved in the organization. I sometimes pass on some musical tips to Walter. Every now and then such tips make it to the festival. It’s not much more than that, apart from a DJ set at the festival.

9. Are there any highs or lows from the BDC years that are worth mentioning?

There are no real highs or lows. There have been ups and downs, of course.

For example, I wanted to stop doing it a few years ago. Two releases, Shagor and Meslamtaea (Geketend in de Schaduw van het Leven) were already in production, they were still to come and then it could just stop. Suddenly the Shagor LP sold out in a few weeks, Meslamtaea also did very well and Alkerdeel asked us if we wanted to co-release their upcoming album with Consouling Sounds. At such a moment you can float along on the success and the bright prospects.

There have also been quite a few releases that haven’t done so well. Then the financial and logistical pressure, which has always been there, increased. That mental pressure made me second-guess upcoming releases and ultimately required more effort from the label than they provided joy for me.

Of course it also created many wonderful memories. Contacting local bands like Bütcher, Witch Trail or Kozmotron after a performance and creating great releases, international bands that find their way to you, contact with customers at shows, seeing bands from your label play rock-solid performances at festivals like Roadburn …

In summary, contacts with people are the most enjoyable. And of course the LPs, CDs and tapes that I will continue to play for a long time!

10. How do you see the future for labels in the underground, now that streaming has largely taken over physical sales? Do you have any tips for people who would like to start a label now?

It’s clear that running an underground label is becoming more and more of a challenge. Life has become much more expensive, meaning that people have fewer resources to purchase physical music carriers, which in turn have also risen sharply in price. For example, in the past you had €100 left at the end of the month and you could easily buy five or six LPs. Today you may only have €40 left, which often won’t even buy you two more.

The role of a label has changed dramatically in recent years due to the widespread internet on the one hand and the possibility of recording with much smaller budgets on the other. Many underground bands today come out on their own with their music on platforms such as Bandcamp, YouTube, Spotify and so on. In the past, a label was a kind of gatekeeper that you had to pass through as a band to get music out into the world. Today it is the opposite and there are plenty of examples of labels that scour Bandcamp and then release music that can already be heard online on a physical medium.

The larger underground labels will be around for a while. I’m thinking of Ván Records, Osmose Productions, Eisenwald, Iron Bonehead, Nuclear War Now (who are even going to start their own pressing plant), etc. The slightly smaller ones are going to have a very difficult time, I fear. Some have already stopped, such as The Sinister Flame. Gilead Media also announced the ending. That of course gives a little more breathing room for other labels, but I still predict that labels will fold in the coming years.

Tips for starting a label? Look before you leap. If the passion is there, go for it. Don’t expect anything in return financially and don’t invest your last cent in it.

11. Besides music, I understood that there is a great passion for plants and growing vegetables? What is a hobby that currently drives you?

A passion for growing vegetables may be an exaggeration. I do have a year with a local organic farmer. That was really everything: planting, weeding, hoeing, raking, filling up, harvesting, washing, putting together packages, … I really enjoyed that year and learned a lot about plants, what we actually eat, soil management…

Ultimately, I gave up that job to… right, run the label full time.

I practice yoga regularly, take our dog for a daily walk, am in a polar bear club (you know, outdoor swimming in the winter) and am also trying to learn to play the piano. And music remains a great passion of course.

12. Is there still hope that BDC will be pulled from the shelf in the near future? (we hope so!)

Really no idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Interview: Floris

The connection is Black metal. All bands take this seriously, there is not a lot of room for ego’s and there is a mutual respect. It is nice to see that there are still some Black metal bands who stay true to an original form of expression and it is less about a certain “act” or copying one and other. A good example of this is the Void Wanderer Productions sampler which was released just recently. We are honored to be a part of this.

1. Greetings to you and thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Times must be exciting right now within your ranks, what with a debut EP being released. What is the mood right now within the Grafhond camp?

This is indeed an exiting time for us. We both went deep in creating this record. And although we did not concern ourselves with the opinions of other people during the creative process, it is of course very nice to see and hear that the reaction on the record so far is positive.

2. You are releasing the EP a full six years after the genesis of Grafhond. Are you a band who likes to take their time when creating, or were there other factors that delayed the release?

A little bit of both. Grafhond is a duo and will remain so. But when Grafhond started we were still open to the idea of working with other people. When most of the songs were written we contacted some individuals of who we thought would fit the concept of Grafhond, and see if we could work together. After some time however it became clear that the best and only way forward for Grafhond was to remain a duo. This ment that we would play and record all the instruments and vocals ourselves. This of course took some extra time. Also, we are not in a rush. We found that taking the time to let the songs sink in gave us the time to reflect on what was created and, if deemed necessary, change some song structures or add some stuff to deepen the compositions.

3. You write your lyrics in your native Dutch tongue. I find with a lot of Dutch Black Metal bands there is a distinctly Dutch identity, especially in terms of lyrics and artwork. Is that something that you feel applies to Grafhond? What does it mean to you to be a Dutch BM band?

To be honest, when Grafhond started we were not aware of how immense the Dutch Black Metal scene had become. We dont follow the (Black) metal scene as closely as we did when we were younger. We knew about maybe six to ten bands, but it turned out that there are hundreds now. We still dont know most of the bands so cannot give an opinion on their lyrics or artwork. The discussion to write lyrics in our native tongue was a choice made purely because it felt more personal for us to express certain emotions and feelings in a language closer to home.

5. Let us go back to the beginnings of Grafhond. How did the project get started? Was there a specific mission statement behind the ethos of the band?

We both have played in a more death metal orientated band over 15 years ago, but when we started to play together for Grafhond about six years ago, it became immediately clear that our focus was going to be Black Metal. We both grew up in the early nineties, when the second ​wave of Black Metal was at its peak, and this movement left a great impression on us. Many of these early bands had a certain edge and darkness to themselves, something we felt was/is missing in a lot of the more modern day Black Metal bands. Our vision for Grafhond was to make brutal, not overly complex compositions with a focus on intensity and despair.

6. What bands did you all grow up listening to? And, which bands do you feel have a direct influence on the sound and style of Grafhond?

We both came in contact with music at an early age. We grew up on bands like Creedence Clearwater Revival, The beatles, Pink Floyd, Chicago etc. Later we came in contact with Black sabbath, GnR, Iron Maiden, Megadeth etc., and after that the more extreme stuff. Too much to name.Some examples of bands/albums who we feel have a direct influence on our style on “In harmonie met de dood” would be “Total war” from the band “War”. A total classic! Same goes for “Panzer Division” by “Marduk”. Darkthrone in some riffing and in attitude. Also “Pure Holocaust” by “Immortal” and maybe even “Slaughtersun” by “dawn” and/or “Storm of lights bane” by “Dissection”.There is no particular band who has an influence on the sound of Grafhond. There was something special and magical in the production and sound on a lot of the early classic Black metal albums. Maybe one could not hear exactly what all instruments were playing, but there was a certain dark aura present “between the lines” which gave these albums a grand feeling. Hard to explain, and some people just hear this as white noise. This was an inspiration for Grafhond when we searched for a sound fitting to the songs on “In harmonie met de dood”. Andrew van der Schaft, who mixed the record, was a very important factor in this proces and helped us tremendously.

7. Do the members of Grafhond perform in any other projects? Please feel free to plug your other bands and projects.

Graaf Graf plays in the band Bullhammers.

8. What are the aspects of being a part of a band, of a creative collective, that you enjoy the most? And, on the flip side of that, which aspects do you find the most challenging?

As mentioned earlier, Grafhond is a duo. This means less opinions which is great. We both know each other very well, not only as musicians, but also as friends. This means there is trust and this makes for a save creative environment. We both went very deep in creating this record, especially in the lyrics department, and sometimes it can be hard to except certain feedback when you are in a certain mind space. We both however are able to accept this from each other, and therefore elevate each others input into something even greater.

9. Are Grafhond a live entity? If so, what can people expect from your live rituals?

Grafhond is not a live entity. We sometimes talk about bringing our material tot the stage with the help from some like minded individuals, but for now this is not our focus. Maybe in the future.

10. What are your thoughts on the Dutch Black Metal scene? Are there any bands you would care to recommend?

We are not very familiar with a lot of the Dutch Black Metal scene so do not have an opinion. There are however some band to recommend. When we came in contact with Kaos, who runs Void Wanderer Productions, we also came in contact with the “Zwotte Kring”. A collective of like indeed individuals who each play and/or perform their take on Black Metal. A lot of great band like Asgrauw, Schavot, Meslamtaea and Teitan. Worthy of checking out!

11. That is all I have for you. Thanks again for answering my questions. I’ll leave the final words to you.

Thank you for you’re interest in Grafhond. Grafhond godverdomme!

Interview: Unknown* found lost in the email.

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Floris is one of the hardest working men in the current Dutch black metal scene. He is one of the regular table guests at the Zwotcast, has been playing in numerous bands since the 90s and is currently involved with Asgrauw, Meslamtaea, Schavot, The Color of Rain and Stuporous. Last but not least, he is one of the founders of the Zwotte Kring. So it’s time to ask some questions.

1. Hey Floris, thank you for letting us ask you some questions. We know you have limited time due to the many projects you are working on. You are sometimes jokingly called ‘the hardest working Dutchman in metal’. Where does this work ethic come from?

Haha, I doubt whether I am the hardest working man: there are many musicians with much more output. But there have been quite a few releases in recent years. Quality is much more important than quantity though. There is an intense fire burning for making music. I dedicate myself 100% to it, can’t do things halfway. I also have other hobbies, a family, a job and a freelance business. All this makes me a busy and a bit chaotic person that is always working on ten things at the same time.

This musical passion has always been there. But current technology helps to work on music – and different projects at the same time – efficiently. In my attic I have a studio with a drum kit and other instruments, which are always ‘ready-to-go’. Whether I’m in the shower or in the car, I’m always ‘working’ on music: brainstorming ideas, rating my latest mixes etc. This is somewhat dependent on the season. The musical fire burns brightest in winter.

2. How do you approach the writing process? We know that you are a real 90s black metal fan, but the music you make often sounds less “old school” or one-way in terms of genre than that crop of music. Do you have an explanation for this?

Although I listen some contemporary extreme metal, I am still kind of stuck in the 90’s. That’s the music I play most of the time. So, contrary to your question, I actually think that my approach to writing music is very old school, because I don’t know another way. That’s almost my only musical reference to be inspired by.

But I listen to a lot of music outside of metal too, such as post-rock and a lot of fusion stuff. These influences will undoubtedly be heard in my music. Especially with Meslamtaea I refuse to limit myself by any musical boxes. For Schavot I stick more to the classic black metal style.

As answered in the previous question, I am always busy with music. I am inspired by anything and everything. Even the ticking of a traffic light can spark a fresh idea. I mumble all brainfarts on a memo recorder. At home it turns out that many ideas were actually not that good. But what does pass the quality control I record on a click-track in Cubase. This expands into complete songs over time through a process of writing, erasing and rewriting. Adding layers of instruments, keys, drums and vocals. Like dominoes, the music often writes itself, one riff leading to another. I have a lot more trouble writing lyrics. I have to push myself hard for that.

4. The Color of Rain, Meslamtaea, Asgrauw, Stuporous, Schavot, Annwfyn. All projects with your name underneath and all incomparable to each other. You have shown that you can work with many styles. Are there any untrodden paths in the woods full of metal genres that you would like to explore someday?

I’m genre-fluid in terms of musical taste. The interest in metal comes in waves and it was gone for a while to be honest. That’s when I started recording Annwfyn. At that time I was mainly listening to God is an Astronaut and bands like Clannad. Within metal I can do anything I want with the projects that we have. Outside of that, I love fusion and I look at the drummers in that genre with great admiration. One day I would like to do something like that, but I don’t have the talent, haha!

5. Besides metal, one of your great passions is photography and in particular photography of Bonsai, plants that you also cut and shape yourself. Are there similarities in design and aesthetics between your music and your photography? Can you compare the approach for both?

That is a good question. Just like in music, I am self-taught as a photographer and have developed my own style. But because I do editorial work for motorcycle magazines I don’t have all the creative freedom. This is different with my bonsai art, in which I am also self-taught. Let me explain first: this is something else that the trees in a pot you find at Ikea. It is an art form with artists who studied for years and have dedicated their lives to it. I have trees that are really old and it is an honour, but also a responsibility, to take care of them and pass it through to the next generation. It is an art form with a history and tradition. Within this art movement there is a large orthodox following with strict rules. And there are a number of artists who follow their own path. This conflicts and it is a scene that is not as peaceful as it seems from the outside. You can guess which movement I follow. For me it is a form of expression, not bound by rules. It’s a synergy between a tree and an artist. From the roots to the apex, such a tree tells a story, with us as artists as storyteller.

This is exactly the same for me as writing music. Expression, without limitation by rules. Though, where music can cause me stress, bonsai can clear my head. I am very impatient as a person. But bonsai teaches me patience. I don’t think in days, but in steps of ten… twenty years.

6. The lyrics and artwork of bands like Stuporous, The Color of Rain and especially Meslamtaea are very dark and paint a tragic and negative picture of the state of humanity. How do you view the current state of our society and the world?

When I watch the news, I always realize that this world is a dead & rotten place and it feels like we’ve already passed the point of no return.

7. How do you view the state of the current Dutch and international black metal scene?

It is impossible to keep up with the enormous amount of releases these days. I notice that many bands struggle to be heard. Also the very good ones. Sometimes you hear a top release from a band that no one knows because they are not media experts. Of course it shouldn’t be that way. Quality should be heard.

The Dutch and Flemish scene is the closest to me to me and I therefore find it the most interesting to follow. Bands like Salacious Gods and Sammath have been around for ages and still make the best records ever. Many younger bands also know what they are doing. Hellevaerder makes exactly the music like in the 90’s. Others, like Teitan, Cthuluminati and Grey Aura, have a very fresh contemporary style that I can also appreciate.

The scene is more vivid than how I remember it from before. In the 90’s it was a lot about image and edginess and there was competition between bands. Some veterans long back to those days, but I think the scene is better now. A lot of bands help each other. Many people are active being reviewers for magazines, run a vlog channel or a radio show. It’s cool to see how it all comes together. Metalheads these days no longer have blinders on and are curious about everything that is released, within different genres. That is awesome.

9 .An open goal shot, but is there already new work in the pipeline?

Y.E.S.! The best is yet to come and we have made so much progress production-wise that we are super stoked to let you hear all our new music. At the time of this interview we are finishing the mix of a new Asgrauw album that is planned for late 2024. This is being mastered by Devi (from Teitan) with new mastering techniques, that he has already practiced on the The Color Of Rain / Meslamtaea split for 2024. This is the best work yet from both bands! Stuporous has released their debut album in January and in the meantime new material for Schavot is also being recorded. I’ll rest when I’m dead.

Interview: Gerhans

Gerhans Meulenbeld is one of the most involved people in the Zwotte Kring. Not only did he start The Color Of Rain, he also recently joined Meslamtaea and delivered solos to Schavot as a guest. He is also part of the Zwotcast team. We asked him how it all came about.

1. Hi Gerhans. You have been in music for some time, but in black metal you are a new name. Can you introduce yourself?

Of course! I am Gerhans, 34 years old and living in Vriezenveen (in the Twente region of the Netherlands) with my wife and son. I have been playing bass and guitar for 20 years and have played for years in bands such as Amped, Incission, As Empires Fall and Sad State of Decay. Nowadays I play guitar and write the music and lyrics for The Color of Rain and lead guitar for Meslamtaea. I also volunteer at a few festivals; Randrock, Vloek van Twenthe and the R&Ms Festival. I am a radio DJ at the Black Monday Radio Show, one of the 3 guys of the Zwotcast and I have recently started trying to write some reviews for Rock Portaal.

2. Your background in metal is more in deathcore and melodic death metal. This music, if you ask me, has a completely different starting point and aesthetic than black metal, and the fanbase is a different type of group. How do you see this? What appeals to you about black metal?

3. Can you unite your background in these death and core styles in the blackened music you write for The Color of Rain? How do you ensure that despite the far-reaching eclectic mix, the extremely dark atmosphere still prevails?

This comes much more naturally than might be expected when you listen to the music for the first time. My idea with The Color of Rain was to approach music more from an atmospheric point rather than purely based off riffs. For me, this starting point fits more into the black metal concept of music than those other styles. However, from my musical upbringing in the death and core styles, I do have a clear framework in which I approach the guitar myself. So this ‘clash of styles’ arose quite organically. The outlook of both the music and the lyrics is quite nihilistic and dark in nature. That ‘color’, the dark atmosphere, is always the starting point when I write new music. It’s not about the black metal style, the music is really too eclectic for that. It’s about the vibe and the message that one can really only compare to black metal.

4. Speaking of The Color Of Rain. Can you tell us something about its origins and what this musical group means to you?

The entire communication surrounding the debut album went so incredibly smooth. We were on the same page most of the time and that felt truly magical. This is still the case; we complete each other by working together and deepening our collaboration. It really feels like a dream team to be able to work with these gentlemen and in my own (not so) humble opinion this can also be clearly heard in the new work that will be released in 2024.

5. You write the lyrics for TCOR yourself. Lyrically, black metal from the past has been mainly negative, depressive, anti-religious or satanic. Do you deviate from these standard themes for TCOR?

Yes and no. In the sense that yes I do deviate from that theme because the lyrics, despite the Lovecraft influences, are much less imaginative. It is not ‘evil for the sake of being evil’ but much more contemplative in nature. The lyrics do have the same negative, dark message, but instead of most bands that attach a fantasy figure to this, our lyrics are steeped in nihilism. Conservatism, the evil of organized religion and the selfish nature of man are inspiration enough. Our world could have been so beautiful, but humanity ruins everything for the sake of its own convenience and the fear of others. We really make a mess of it. This is the same with faith and religion. From a humane point of view, these concepts should ensure that we treat each other a little better, but unfortunately we see that where love is preached, the message is often full of hate and accusing fingers. Wars, racism, hatred towards everything that is not straight and male; the dogmas and rules imposed by religions only create division. Instead of seeing us as a ‘human race’ you see more division than ever and we still put ourselves in boxes like “us” and “them”. The whole notion that we as humans are the center of the universe is outdated and insane, but unfortunately more current than ever. Nature, the universe, everything around us is cracking under our tyranny and would be better off without us. If we were more aware of this, we would interact with each other and the world very differently.

6. Are lyrics subordinate to the music or are they of great importance to you?

Lyrics are of vital importance to me. Music should cause friction, amaze, make one think. Without a message, music feels less sincere in my opinion. Not that you always need lyrics for a message; some instrumental music can tell just as much story with one melody line than an entire concept album. That said, singing and lyrics are indispensable for my music. The way Devi interprets and conveys the lyrics fits perfectly with how I envisioned this music. Like me, Devi is quite outspoken about our message. If we zoom out, everything we are so concerned about is less than a drop in the cosmic ocean; in less than a sigh it’s over. We want to convey that nihilistic message in our music and in our lyrics. Reflecting on the dark side of humanity and the awareness that life doesn’t revolve around us is, I think, very healthy and felt like catharsis for all of us.

7. The debut album “Oceans Above” has been bizarrely well received by the press. What were your expectations and what does this do to you?

I’m still blown away by how well everything is received. I never expected that music of such an eclectic nature would be picked up like that. Of course, we stand fully behind our art, but this, from the start, felt more like a passion project than something for a wider audience. It’s music that we especially wanted to hear ourselves. The danger there is that it quickly becomes less accessible. Fortunately, that concern turned out to be unfounded, because we have people from all kinds of sides and subgenres who embrace the music. The extremely positive reviews, the number of streams/views and most of all the overwhelming response from listeners (down to the 1st TCOR tattoo) are heart-warming.

8. TCOR is not a one-time project and has new material coming. What can you say about that now without revealing too much?

Yes! We just finished work on a split album that will be released next year. We’re doing this one together with another Zwotte Kring project and the 4 songs (5 if you count the intro) are definitely a step-up for us. The music goes beyond the beaten path even more than the debut, but I also think it sounds more focused. The atmosphere is even darker, as are the lyrics. There is a certain layering in the music that we are very proud of. In addition, we have really made a gigantic leap forward in terms of mix and master. Devi and Floris have really done a lot of work in this.

9. You played solos on Schavot for the “Verloren Vertellingen” 4-way split. How did this come about? Can you relate to this music, since Schavot is really traditional black metal?

As I mentioned earlier, the typical black clicked with me a little later. Nevertheless, bands like Cradle, Dimmu and Emperor have long been some of my favorites. I personally think Schavot is one of, if not the, coolest black metal to come from our own country. I honestly think that there are few projects or bands worldwide that know how to wrap that 90s black metal zeitgeist in a modern sauce more than Schavot does. When Floris asked me to write a solo for both songs, I didn’t have to think about it for a second. They practically wrote themselves. In any case, I believe in the idea that we are the scene together and am therefore a great supporter of such collaborations. I hope to be involved in more projects in the future!

10. In addition, you recently joined the unorthodox black metal group Meslamtaea as a permanent member, a band which has been operating in the Dutch underground since 1998. This is a completely different style of black metal, which regularly shakes hands with jazz and soul. What is your contribution to this band and do the different bands require a different playing style from you?

Yeah, cool, huh? I am really proud to be part of this. Even though I am a real fan of all of Ward and Floris’ bands and projects, Meslamtaea was my first contact with their work. The bleakness of the cover-art, the completely unique vibe the songs have: I was immediately impressed by this group. It is a completely different approach to music than how I normally write my parts. Therefore it’s great to be involved with. Working out my contributions as lead guitarist feels very adventurous and innovative. I learned a lot and had to brush up on my knowledge of jazz and fusion guitar. While the solos for Schavot wrote themselves, this was certainly not the case with Meslamtaea. Ultimately, I am very proud of the result of this new work. I tried to mix those vintage, jazzy sounds with a black metal aesthetic and keep it all in my own playing style, so I’m curious to hear the reactions!

11. You are also active in the field of radio and podcasts. What is it you do? As if that wasn’t enough, you are a moderator for the Rock & Metal Society and you are organizing a Festival. What do you want to say about this?

The R&MS Fest premiered for the first time in November 2023. The Rock & Metal Society, of which I am an admin, is an extremely enthusiastic and fun group on Facebook filled with like-minded people. Unlike many other groups, this has really grown into a community, with members who have built a personal bond with each other, new music projects emerging and people visiting each other at concerts and at home! The wish arose to organize a meeting. Thanks to the ‘fine nine’ – as we as nine organizers have come to call ourselves – this meeting grew into a real festival at Popei in Eindhoven. It was an epic afternoon and evening with lots of fun and live music from 6 amazing bands from the group. Because it turned out to be such an incredible success, we immediately decided that it would not be a one-time event and the next edition is already planned for November 9, 2024, with 6 incredibly cool bands!

Interview: Floris

In this second interview for the Zwotte Kring we dive into the world of the label Void Wanderer Productions from the Netherlands. Label owner Ward is part of our collective and also a member of Asgrauw and Meslamtaea. Out of passion for black metal, he started this label a few years ago.

1. Hi Ward, thanks for your time! Void Wanderer Productions is a label that already has done a few Zwotte Kring releases, but has also distributed many cool albums and merch outside of it. Can you introduce yourself and the label?

Hey Floris, thank you for the attention and this interview. I, Ward (aka Kaos, aka Void Wanderer) am the guy behind Void Wanderer Productions. VWP is an underground black metal label based in the Netherlands. My mission is to offer a platform for bands with a high quality and releases that I would like to have on a physical format myself.

3. Void Wanderer is known as a traditional black metal label, but with Teitan, The Color of Rain and Stuporous you also dare to release other styles. You are also a fan of hardcore punk yourself. You will currently receive a lot of requests from bands. What makes you want to release something?

Indeed, I often release traditional black metal, but I have also released some deviating experimental or doomy black before the Zwotte Kring bands mentioned above, but also Offret, Lethargie, Tattva, Abigorum and Archaeopteris.

I receive quite a few submissions. And I actually don’t have much time because I enjoy doing so many things, which means I have too many hobbies. But I have been able to make a combination, I exercise 5 days a week and I have enough submissions to listen to at least a new one every time. When I’m working out and an EP/album is finished, there are a number of options: either I thought it was great and wanted to release it, or I heard it wasn’t my thing and I’m not going to release it. Occasionally, after such a session I don’t really know what I listened to. This could be because it didn’t grab me or because I was just too focused on something else. Then I would like to give such an EP/album another chance. But just liking it and wanting to release it is not enough. I still have to agree with the band: when, on what format, etc…

4. Do you prefer vinyl, CD or tape? Does that differ per release?

Personally I would say vinyl, I think this medium is the most beautiful. And what Rui (War Productions) also indicated in your previous interview, playing vinyl is about the entire experience or, as he said, the ritual.

I myself am actually from the CD generation, as a teenager in the 00’s you could no longer find tapes in the shops, I only knew them from my MyFirstSony with which I sometimes recorded songs as a kid.

But for a label things are different. I wish I had the space to release vinyl mostly. But also the upfront investment is too high for me to do this often per year. Tapes, on the other hand, are a different story, the circulation, production time and investment are easy to manage and therefore attractive for an underground label. Another thing is that I am very visual and things that are possible with tapes these days really has some value in that regard.

I also release CDs, I release about half of the releases per year on CD. Some subgenre are simply better suited for CD and others for tape.

6. Doesn’t being active on social media have the downside that the ‘mystery’ surrounding black metal bands (like in the 90’s) disappears? Or is the current time no longer comparable to the past in terms of black metal culture?

I was born in 1990, so I experienced that period very differently. For me, black metal was unknown territory. I don’t know how to run a label without social media these days. Maybe the mystery is gone because there is a more direct line between label – band – fan? But here too the mystery still lives, people like to fill in the blanks for themselves

7. You often collaborate with other labels such as War Productions from Portugal and Onism from England. What is the reason for seeking collaboration?

When I started as a label in 2018, I already had some contact with War productions. This was mainly because of the trading of Asgrauw and Meslamtaea. So for me it was a logical step to also exchange my own releases with War Productions. When I wanted to release the band Eternal Abyss in 2019, I looked for a partner. Ever since War Productions and Void Wanderer Productions have released a lot together.

In 2021 I came into contact with Onism Productions. We released both Teitan albums together on CD.

These collaborations have several positive aspects. You have immediately distributed a larger number of copies to a completely different region, but bearing the financial costs together is of course also a solution for small labels like us. After my experience, learning from each other is also an aspect. In this business it is often about trial and error. And being able to learn from friends & colleagues about what works and what doesn’t work is nice.

8. Which releases are you particularly proud of, and can we expect any interesting releases on Void next year?

Actually, I’m proud of everything I’ve released. We have already planned releases for next year until the summer. I won’t mention any names except Stuporous because the PR routes have yet to begin. But you can expect CDs, tapes, vinyl and merch.

9. How do you see the future of black metal labels in relation to the huge rise of streaming? Is there still a demand for physical formats and do you see that disappearing in the coming years? Can you anticipate to this as a label?

I think the streaming listener is a different group than the collectors. Fortunately, we still have enough collectors in the underground.Collectors also use streaming platforms, but more to discover new music. So these streaming platforms are really helpful for me as a label. I can reach much more people who might be interested in the music I release. Personally, I see CD sales declining the most, there are probably just more vinyl and tape collectors.

Interview: Floris

The idea is to expand Zwotte Kring from a musical collective of friends to more of a platform for extreme metal fans. We start with a small series of interviews with bands, musicians and labels that are close to us and that we are interested in. The kick-off will be done by Rui from War Productions in Portugal. This label has done a lot for Zwotte Kring bands.

2. How did you become interested in metal, and black metal specifically?

If memory serves me correctly, it all started around 1990 or 1991 at school. Before that, I already listened to some Hard Rock. There was something about the sound of the guitars and the voices that really caught my attention. So the change to the world of Metal was a quite natural process, I think. Black Metal, I admit, was not very well accepted at first listens, but my curiosity in discovering this new genre was much greater, despite the controversies at the time, which quite honestly went beyond me, I simply wanted to listen the music. So after a while, I came up with a “hypothesis” again and it’s stayed with me until now.

3. War Productions is located in Portugal, a country that is not exactly known for it’s black metal, but I could be wrong! What is the (black) metal scene like in Portugal and which bands should we definitely listen to? Is it a good country to be established as a music-label?

Yes, it’s true, I’m in this beautiful country in the corner of Europe (an expression we have here, a polite one). There are several bands in Portugal within the world of Black Metal. Many are at least minimally known in Europe and are even invited to tours or mini-tours. Others are too “Trve” to say who the members are and if they are from Portugal and/or if they want to play live. Everyone’s opinions/tastes must be respected. In the midst of all this, if i’m honest, in my opinion there have been better times. But it has also been almost the same as it is at the moment. There are few concerts, and there is some rivalry between bands from the North and South. Despite being much better than in the past, at this moment, I don’t have any info about more fights (physical). I feel that sometimes there is no mutual support and even some “brotherhood”, but still a few that keep continue and try to do things.

Bands to listen to? There are many indeed. Some have even existed for many years. Corpus Christii, Decayed, Irae, Grievance, Flagellum Dei, Thy Black Blood, Kruzifix, Lux Ferre, Coldness, Eremus, Mágoa, Incerno Eterno, Black Cilice, Penitência, Vapulah, Candelabrum, Throne Beyond Death, Burning Holocaust, Vulto, Raptus, Omitir, Inthyflesh, Flamma Aeterna, Cripta Oculta, Nortada Gelada, O Cerco, Malleus, Vetala, Satanize, Ab Imo Pectore, Pestiferium, Jazigo, Armnatt, Adverso, War Blasphemy, Storm Legion, Inner Helvete, Ruach Raah, Scarificare, Murmúrio, Raptus, Ordem Satânica, etc. (some still exist, others are split-up) Many more could be mentioned here.

Regarding your last question… No. There are a lot of licenses and fees, VAT is high. The government says that music is culture but however, it is taxed as a luxury item (maximum VAT), but my stubbornness and taste for the underground keep me going.

4. What kind of bands does War Productions release? Do you receive a lot of requests from bands and what decides you to join forces with a band?

What kind of bands I do release… Those that I like and those that I have money to invest in. Unfortunately, the label is not my main job, it wouldn’t pay the bills and put food on the table. I can’t help all the bands that I like and that fit into what War Productions is nowadays. What leads me to invest in a band is liking it (it has to click inside my ears/feelings) and obviously, as mentioned above, having the money to do so.

5. Which format do you prefer, MC/CD/vinyl? And why?

Favourite… Hmm… I’ll say first the one I identify with the most: the cassette. I come from the time of recording radio shows, I caught the end of the tape trading era with some contacts given to me by older people, saving some money so I could buy some demos and record them on a cassette and send them by post. Sometimes I had to wait months, many months, for the other guy/girl to send it. So yes, I identify more with MC. Next… I have to go to the CD. Why? well, at the time I started working and having my own money to buy music, that’s when the big change took place in the world of music. At least in my country. Vinyl started to be produced less, CDs were cheaper, the labels were betting on something smaller and faster to manufacture. There were fewer and fewer stores selling vinyl in my country. The demand, despite being +/- high, there are almost no places to buy it, that’s why CDs were starting to have more and more demand. It’s practical, the space required is much lower than vinyl. Simply a normal process… Vinyl… I personally like vinyl, but the space/price factor weighs heavily and despite vinyl purists who claim that it is the best format in terms of quality, I don’t agree. For me it’s a ritual, picking it up, looking at it, putting it on the vinyl player, picking up the cover, looking at it, feeling that piece of art, then lifting it and changing the side of the vinyl. It’s a ritual for me and I do it whenever I can, but the space/price factor makes it very difficult unfortunately.

6. It used to be that quality releases came in the spotlight automatically. But that is no longer the case nowadays, due to the enormous flood of black metal releases. As a label, how do you give your releases enough attention? Do you expect bands to put in a lot of PR work themselves?

Yes, it’s the truth. Nowadays it is much easier to release a demo, a split, etc, than it was in the past. Who had bands in the 90’s and early 00’s knows what I’m saying. I noticed the difference, in the past bands (and me too) had to go to a studio and pay a lot. Nowadays, a lot of people buy software, a guitar, and a bass and record it, so you can release a lot of music per year. This is all multiplied by thousands of Metal lovers. That’s why it’s much more difficult to stand out, the competition is huge and for the listener, to be honest, is very hard to listen to everything.

I always tried and try to give everyone the same attention, never overriding or prioritizing anyone. If I’m launching it’s because I like what I’m launching and for me, the right thing to do is to give the same time and dedication to everyone in the same way. However, I admit that nowadays it is much easier to promote bands than when I started. It is a process that is always changing due to the tools available, how people search, and the time you have to dedicate. It is a process that I am always learning. Working with a PR is always a big help, I admit, but the label always has to do its job too.

The bands… Here I speak for myself (no label side) as if I were in their place (and I already have been). It is always necessary to work and do what you can and what you know. If you don’t know, simply ask what’s the best thing to do. It’s not all in the hands of the label, even if they do good work, or try their best. So waiting under the tree, waiting for the results to appear is not good in my opinion. Sometimes it works. Other times it doesn’t, but you fought and tried, you made mistakes, you will improve the method you used and correct the mistakes you made.

7. Are there any War-releases you are particularly proud of? And are there any War releases we can look forward to soon?

I’m proud of all to be honest. They all helped in everything, being criticized, being applauded, being sought out by bands, evolving, growing, but sometimes also going backward. All releases were important for War Productions and I’m proud of them all.

Yes, this year (December 1st) Fyrgast from Sweden will be released. It is the reissue of the first album and for the first time in cassette format.

For the year 2024, for now, I can only inform the following band Stuporous from the Netherlands. An excellent Black Doom band! More… What can I say… Honestly, I don’t want to say much more because the other launches are still in the PR process.

8. You work a lot with Void Wanderer Productions from the Netherlands. Why are you joining forces and what is your bond?

Yes, it is true. It happened in a very simple way. We talked, exchanged ideas, and things got done. I have the pleasure of working with a very professional and also very human person, we have/had the pleasure of talking about many things. This also helps to keep moving forward, not just the “professional” and cold part.

Why join forces? In my opinion, it is much easier to work together (with not too many people, it’s better to have a few good ones) and fight in harmony for a common ground. But I also have to admit that for an underground label, it is less expensive to do co-releases.

10. With the rise of streaming, how do you see the future of music labels in the underground? Do you see this as a danger, or an opportunity?

Here is a question that I have personally answered several times and to this day I have maintained the same idea. The stream helps everyone, in this we have to be realistic and admit it. To both, bands and labels. Be they Underground or Mainstream. They all benefit and are able to reach more places, more people, and easier hearing. Only positive things.

What comes next is that it’s a little more “complicated” for people to buy. Even if it is digitally, what you receive is miserable, the “sharks” of streaming platforms only give you crumbs, and most of the time to receive a crumb you have to have 500 streams (I don’t know if this is the case or really true, I’m commenting things I’ve read on blogs, social media, and I don’t have or use streaming platforms other than YouTube and Bandcamp, so I can’t confirm)…

The physical format costs more money, and space, despite obviously the feeling of having an album, a demo, a vinyl, etc., in your hand will be totally different. This last factor is very important for underground labels. Many of these labels, for their creators/collaborators, are a love, a dream, a “second” job and it takes money to continue. Become rich and/or millionaires? Don’t even think about it, but all money is important for an underground label. So my opinion continues to be 50/50 but in the hope that the second part of the “50” grows…

Interview: Floris