Year: 2024

On our Zwotte Kring platform we interview people who we find interesting and appreciate for their commitment to the scene. Such a person is Jo Versmissen from Antwerp, Belgium. He is the man behind Babylon Doom Cult Records (BDC) which has done a lot for the scene. Unfortunately, it could be read on social media that BDC is taking a step back.

1. Hello Jo, thanks for your time! Can you introduce yourself? Who are you and how did you end up in the world of black metal?

Hello, thank you for your interest in my story. I’m Jo Versmissen and I run Babylon Doom Cult Records. About thirty years ago I was introduced to extreme music through my cousin and a friend of my sister. From the usual suspects such as Metallica, Iron Maiden and Pantera, it went to Sepultura to Morbid Angel and Deicide. Until I bought the Blackend Vol. 1 collection cd. I was sold to it immediately! Less than a week later, CDs of Immortal and Impaled Nazarene, among others, were on the doormat and I was walking around in a Pure Holocaust shirt.

2. BDC started in 2017. What prompted you to set up the label? In a short time, BDC has become a big name, especially among the open-minded audience. How did you achieve this?

I had been active for several years booking live shows in Antwerp. First just on my own, later in the OnderGronds collective. This way you naturally get to know the people in the bands you book. For example, I have booked shows for Alkerdeel, Terzij De Horde, Laster, Oranssi Pazuzu and Aluk Todolo. When I switched from employee to freelance status in 2017, I included things such as releasing music, organizing performances, etc. in my company’s activities with the idea “who knows one day…” There were no concrete plans yet. One evening I gave Pede van Alkerdeel a lift from Bruges to Ghent and this came up. He immediately said that De Speenzalvinge did not yet exist on LP. That’s what got the ball rolling.

The next releases were Kozmotron, Speed Queen, Witch Trail, Bütcher and Marginal. Perhaps the breadth of genres appeals to the open-minded music lover? There wasn’t really a plan behind it. For example, if I heard the Willie Darktrousers tape, I simply asked the label (Tartarus) to ask the band if they were interested in a vinyl release. Everything was possible, everything was allowed. Later I tried to get a bit more of a line into the releases, although I could never resist simply a good release.

I think the bottom line is that you should follow your gut feeling. If you don’t work authentically, you won’t get there or it will quickly become an assignment instead of a hobby.

3. BDC’s roster mainly consists of bands with an ‘edge’. Many bands operate in the atmospheric / post-black / punk-crust corner or are experimental. But you also dare to release very traditional black metal. What is the deciding factor for you to release a release, and what could be a reason why a release affects you?

The music has to grab me, I have to put it on spontaneously and I need to want it in my collection. Spontaneously putting on the music and wanting it to be in my collection is easy to explain. When music grabs me… that’s harder to explain. Sometimes I can’t put my finger on it. After all these years I have discovered that I love a good song, regardless of genre. A black metal song that, for example, only thrives on aggression or continues to race at top
speed all the time, will rarely appeal to me, although there are always exceptions. A song may be repetitive. The best music is music that I can’t initially say whether I like or not, but that I want to keep hearing again and again and again. If music grabs me immediately, the interest often disappears after about four listens because it is not challenging enough.

Some albums just make something happen. For example, if I put on Bat Magic or Invunche, I automatically start headbanging. Unru stirs emotion in me every time. When music triggers such an automatic response, I know it’s good.

4. A vinyl re-release of ‘Emperors of the Night’ by the legendary Flemish band Avatar has been released on BDC. The keyboardist in question, Izzy, is now part of our Zwotte Kring collective and a member of Meslamtaea, which is also released via BDC. Avatar brings back beautiful memories for many older black metal fanatics among us. Avatar played a lot in the nineties with Flemish bands such as Ancient Rites and Enthroned. How do you look back on the golden years of black metal?

What are the “golden years of black metal”? For me personally, it dates from around 1993 when bands like Emperor, Mayhem, Enslaved, Samael, Abigor, Sigh, etc. came up with legendary albums until roughly the end of the 1990s.

As far as I’m concerned, black metal has become more and more “normal”. When I listened to “In The Nightside Eclipse” as a 16-year-old, I was overwhelmed by its mystery: the sound, the singing, the stories about church burnings… Everything took place much more in your
head than it does today. Now you take your smartphone out of your pocket, look up something and everything becomes much more “tangible”. The wonder makes way for something mundane. There are several reasons for this. You lose some imagination as you get older, you become familiar with black metal and the mystery becomes less. Bands today also have many more predecessors, meaning that more influences unconsciously creep into music making their own brews less innovative. In the mid to late 1990s, almost everything was innovative, which also makes you more stimulated. Live shows also used to be much less professionally organized, which made it all more underground and sometimes created a dangerous atmosphere.

The golden years of black metal had some assets that have been somewhat toned down today. Every now and then my sense of amazement rears its head again. This can happen with new music, but also sometimes when I play “In The Nightside Eclipse” or visit a performance that completely captivates me. Or, for example, the two Müür releases have captivated me for several weeks. My tape deck can play two tapes continuously one after the other. That way I listened to those two tapes on repeat for days.

5. In recent years, the Flemish black metal scene seems to be increasingly present. What’s in your tap water, why has your scene become so strong?

I think the possibilities for recording music and releasing it into the world are much greater today than they were about 20 years ago. There is no longer any need for an expensive studio to deliver a professional product. This provides much more output, which will automatically produce more good music. I don’t actually know whether the scene is really that much stronger than it used to be. There are many good bands, but for me the bands that stand head and shoulders above the rest are the veterans such as Lugubrum or Alkerdeel. To be honest, I personally like the Dutch scene more with bands like Laster, Invunche, Turia, Fluisteraars, … We have also released quite a lot of Dutch bands with Invunche, Witte Wieven, Hagetisse, Ceremoniële Walging, Wolves In The Condo, Shagor, Alburnum, Dinbethes, Meslamtaea, Freja, Gott, Helleruin, The Dreaded Disease, Mist and Traveler. Perhaps more than Belgian music if I sum it up like that.

6. Black metal is now more popular than ever. But times have changed compared to the 1990s, when much was still analogue and no one had mobile phones or laptops. Nevertheless, many bands continue to stick to the classic style and theme of black metal, while there doesn’t seem to be much mysticism anymore. How do you view the current scene? Do you think black metal needs to be reinvented or is there still a place for the old style?

For me, there is especially room for good music. Whether it is an old style like Moenen Of Xezbeth or something more modern like DHG shows on Black Medium Current makes little difference to me. For me black metal doesn’t have to have a satanistic approach. If someone thinks it should be that way, that’s fine too, of course, in the end it’s just a name and the music doesn’t change by calling it a different genre. So I consider Frost by Enslaved to be black metal.

I like the diversity of the scene. I think a band like Krallice is great. Their music is clearly based on black metal, but still creates a completely different feeling. Or Infidel Art by Sigh, perhaps my favorite album of all time. That album alone contains doom, black metal, power metal, bombast, punk… and it works because the songs are good. Actually, I often find traditional, riff-based black metal the most boring.

7. What is the status of BDC? In September we read the message that you are pulling the plug because motivation is disappearing. Can you explain why the label fire is dying out?

At the time of writing, we expect one more release before the plug will be pulled. It is impossible to predict whether it will ever be plugged in again. As a small label it is difficult to survive. Then you have to ask yourself whether you still want to make all the sacrifices of free time. On the other hand, I regularly think that I would like to release certain albums such as “Archidemon” by Apovrasma or “Voor Altijd” by Desinteresse. We have even toyed with the idea of setting up a side label for other genres such as the cold wave of Disinterest or more electronic music such as ZackZackZack.

However, at the moment I don’t have the energy to put my efforts further.

8. Do you still remain active in the scene in some other way? I understand that you organize shows and are active in the background at Roadburn, among other things?

In the past I have regularly organized shows, ranging from small unknown bands to bigger names such as Aluk Todolo or Altar Of Plagues. I also spent some time in OnderGronds, an Antwerp collective that operated in the same way with shows by small bands but also presented larger packages in Antwerp. For example, Svartidaudi, Spectral Voice, Aura Noir, Anaal Nathrakh and Dodheimsgard have all passed by. At the moment I’m not really active in organizing show anymore. Occasionally I provide music between and after performances.

There is certainly an affinity with Roadburn, but I am not involved in the organization. I sometimes pass on some musical tips to Walter. Every now and then such tips make it to the festival. It’s not much more than that, apart from a DJ set at the festival.

9. Are there any highs or lows from the BDC years that are worth mentioning?

There are no real highs or lows. There have been ups and downs, of course.

For example, I wanted to stop doing it a few years ago. Two releases, Shagor and Meslamtaea (Geketend in de Schaduw van het Leven) were already in production, they were still to come and then it could just stop. Suddenly the Shagor LP sold out in a few weeks, Meslamtaea also did very well and Alkerdeel asked us if we wanted to co-release their upcoming album with Consouling Sounds. At such a moment you can float along on the success and the bright prospects.

There have also been quite a few releases that haven’t done so well. Then the financial and logistical pressure, which has always been there, increased. That mental pressure made me second-guess upcoming releases and ultimately required more effort from the label than they provided joy for me.

Of course it also created many wonderful memories. Contacting local bands like Bütcher, Witch Trail or Kozmotron after a performance and creating great releases, international bands that find their way to you, contact with customers at shows, seeing bands from your label play rock-solid performances at festivals like Roadburn …

In summary, contacts with people are the most enjoyable. And of course the LPs, CDs and tapes that I will continue to play for a long time!

10. How do you see the future for labels in the underground, now that streaming has largely taken over physical sales? Do you have any tips for people who would like to start a label now?

It’s clear that running an underground label is becoming more and more of a challenge. Life has become much more expensive, meaning that people have fewer resources to purchase physical music carriers, which in turn have also risen sharply in price. For example, in the past you had €100 left at the end of the month and you could easily buy five or six LPs. Today you may only have €40 left, which often won’t even buy you two more.

The role of a label has changed dramatically in recent years due to the widespread internet on the one hand and the possibility of recording with much smaller budgets on the other. Many underground bands today come out on their own with their music on platforms such as Bandcamp, YouTube, Spotify and so on. In the past, a label was a kind of gatekeeper that you had to pass through as a band to get music out into the world. Today it is the opposite and there are plenty of examples of labels that scour Bandcamp and then release music that can already be heard online on a physical medium.

The larger underground labels will be around for a while. I’m thinking of Ván Records, Osmose Productions, Eisenwald, Iron Bonehead, Nuclear War Now (who are even going to start their own pressing plant), etc. The slightly smaller ones are going to have a very difficult time, I fear. Some have already stopped, such as The Sinister Flame. Gilead Media also announced the ending. That of course gives a little more breathing room for other labels, but I still predict that labels will fold in the coming years.

Tips for starting a label? Look before you leap. If the passion is there, go for it. Don’t expect anything in return financially and don’t invest your last cent in it.

11. Besides music, I understood that there is a great passion for plants and growing vegetables? What is a hobby that currently drives you?

A passion for growing vegetables may be an exaggeration. I do have a year with a local organic farmer. That was really everything: planting, weeding, hoeing, raking, filling up, harvesting, washing, putting together packages, … I really enjoyed that year and learned a lot about plants, what we actually eat, soil management…

Ultimately, I gave up that job to… right, run the label full time.

I practice yoga regularly, take our dog for a daily walk, am in a polar bear club (you know, outdoor swimming in the winter) and am also trying to learn to play the piano. And music remains a great passion of course.

12. Is there still hope that BDC will be pulled from the shelf in the near future? (we hope so!)

Really no idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Interview: Floris

1. Greetings to you and thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Times must be exciting right now within your ranks, what with a debut EP being released. What is the mood right now within the Grafhond camp?

This is indeed an exiting time for us. We both went deep in creating this record. And although we did not concern ourselves with the opinions of other people during the creative process, it is of course very nice to see and hear that the reaction on the record so far is positive.

2. You are releasing the EP a full six years after the genesis of Grafhond. Are you a band who likes to take their time when creating, or were there other factors that delayed the release?

A little bit of both. Grafhond is a duo and will remain so. But when Grafhond started we were still open to the idea of working with other people. When most of the songs were written we contacted some individuals of who we thought would fit the concept of Grafhond, and see if we could work together. After some time however it became clear that the best and only way forward for Grafhond was to remain a duo. This ment that we would play and record all the instruments and vocals ourselves. This of course took some extra time. Also, we are not in a rush. We found that taking the time to let the songs sink in gave us the time to reflect on what was created and, if deemed necessary, change some song structures or add some stuff to deepen the compositions.

3. You write your lyrics in your native Dutch tongue. I find with a lot of Dutch Black Metal bands there is a distinctly Dutch identity, especially in terms of lyrics and artwork. Is that something that you feel applies to Grafhond? What does it mean to you to be a Dutch BM band?

To be honest, when Grafhond started we were not aware of how immense the Dutch Black Metal scene had become. We dont follow the (Black) metal scene as closely as we did when we were younger. We knew about maybe six to ten bands, but it turned out that there are hundreds now. We still dont know most of the bands so cannot give an opinion on their lyrics or artwork. The discussion to write lyrics in our native tongue was a choice made purely because it felt more personal for us to express certain emotions and feelings in a language closer to home.

4. As I mentioned, your lyrics are in Dutch. So, for us English only speakers, can you please elaborate on the themes and subject matter that runs through the EP?

The title of our record translates as “In harmony with death”. We both have our share of darker mental periodes in our lives and take lyrical inspiration from this, so this seemed like a fitting title. Sometimes we express these feelings in a more cryptical manner and sometimes in a more direct manner. For example, “Verwekker” deals with childhood fears due to an unsafe environment created by alcohol abuse from a parent, “Gefluister” deals with maddening negative voices inside of you’re head and its eventual disastrous consequences, “Gat” deals with being unable to cope with some realities in life which result in a downward spiral and leaving all behind, and “Verslagen” is about endless mental struggle and detachment.

5. Let us go back to the beginnings of Grafhond. How did the project get started? Was there a specific mission statement behind the ethos of the band?

We both have played in a more death metal orientated band over 15 years ago, but when we started to play together for Grafhond about six years ago, it became immediately clear that our focus was going to be Black Metal. We both grew up in the early nineties, when the second ​wave of Black Metal was at its peak, and this movement left a great impression on us. Many of these early bands had a certain edge and darkness to themselves, something we felt was/is missing in a lot of the more modern day Black Metal bands. Our vision for Grafhond was to make brutal, not overly complex compositions with a focus on intensity and despair.

6. What bands did you all grow up listening to? And, which bands do you feel have a direct influence on the sound and style of Grafhond?

We both came in contact with music at an early age. We grew up on bands like Creedence Clearwater Revival, The beatles, Pink Floyd, Chicago etc. Later we came in contact with Black sabbath, GnR, Iron Maiden, Megadeth etc., and after that the more extreme stuff. Too much to name.Some examples of bands/albums who we feel have a direct influence on our style on “In harmonie met de dood” would be “Total war” from the band “War”. A total classic! Same goes for “Panzer Division” by “Marduk”. Darkthrone in some riffing and in attitude. Also “Pure Holocaust” by “Immortal” and maybe even “Slaughtersun” by “dawn” and/or “Storm of lights bane” by “Dissection”.There is no particular band who has an influence on the sound of Grafhond. There was something special and magical in the production and sound on a lot of the early classic Black metal albums. Maybe one could not hear exactly what all instruments were playing, but there was a certain dark aura present “between the lines” which gave these albums a grand feeling. Hard to explain, and some people just hear this as white noise. This was an inspiration for Grafhond when we searched for a sound fitting to the songs on “In harmonie met de dood”. Andrew van der Schaft, who mixed the record, was a very important factor in this proces and helped us tremendously.

7. Do the members of Grafhond perform in any other projects? Please feel free to plug your other bands and projects.

Graaf Graf plays in the band Bullhammers.

8. What are the aspects of being a part of a band, of a creative collective, that you enjoy the most? And, on the flip side of that, which aspects do you find the most challenging?

As mentioned earlier, Grafhond is a duo. This means less opinions which is great. We both know each other very well, not only as musicians, but also as friends. This means there is trust and this makes for a save creative environment. We both went very deep in creating this record, especially in the lyrics department, and sometimes it can be hard to except certain feedback when you are in a certain mind space. We both however are able to accept this from each other, and therefore elevate each others input into something even greater.

9. Are Grafhond a live entity? If so, what can people expect from your live rituals?

Grafhond is not a live entity. We sometimes talk about bringing our material tot the stage with the help from some like minded individuals, but for now this is not our focus. Maybe in the future.

10. What are your thoughts on the Dutch Black Metal scene? Are there any bands you would care to recommend?

We are not very familiar with a lot of the Dutch Black Metal scene so do not have an opinion. There are however some band to recommend. When we came in contact with Kaos, who runs Void Wanderer Productions, we also came in contact with the “Zwotte Kring”. A collective of like indeed individuals who each play and/or perform their take on Black Metal. A lot of great band like Asgrauw, Schavot, Meslamtaea and Teitan. Worthy of checking out!

11. That is all I have for you. Thanks again for answering my questions. I’ll leave the final words to you.

Thank you for you’re interest in Grafhond. Grafhond godverdomme!

Interview: Unknown* found lost in the email.

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1. Hey Floris, thank you for letting us ask you some questions. We know you have limited time due to the many projects you are working on. You are sometimes jokingly called ‘the hardest working Dutchman in metal’. Where does this work ethic come from?

Haha, I doubt whether I am the hardest working man: there are many musicians with much more output. But there have been quite a few releases in recent years. Quality is much more important than quantity though. There is an intense fire burning for making music. I dedicate myself 100% to it, can’t do things halfway. I also have other hobbies, a family, a job and a freelance business. All this makes me a busy and a bit chaotic person that is always working on ten things at the same time.

This musical passion has always been there. But current technology helps to work on music – and different projects at the same time – efficiently. In my attic I have a studio with a drum kit and other instruments, which are always ‘ready-to-go’. Whether I’m in the shower or in the car, I’m always ‘working’ on music: brainstorming ideas, rating my latest mixes etc. This is somewhat dependent on the season. The musical fire burns brightest in winter.

2. How do you approach the writing process? We know that you are a real 90s black metal fan, but the music you make often sounds less “old school” or one-way in terms of genre than that crop of music. Do you have an explanation for this?

Although I listen some contemporary extreme metal, I am still kind of stuck in the 90’s. That’s the music I play most of the time. So, contrary to your question, I actually think that my approach to writing music is very old school, because I don’t know another way. That’s almost my only musical reference to be inspired by.

But I listen to a lot of music outside of metal too, such as post-rock and a lot of fusion stuff. These influences will undoubtedly be heard in my music. Especially with Meslamtaea I refuse to limit myself by any musical boxes. For Schavot I stick more to the classic black metal style.

As answered in the previous question, I am always busy with music. I am inspired by anything and everything. Even the ticking of a traffic light can spark a fresh idea. I mumble all brainfarts on a memo recorder. At home it turns out that many ideas were actually not that good. But what does pass the quality control I record on a click-track in Cubase. This expands into complete songs over time through a process of writing, erasing and rewriting. Adding layers of instruments, keys, drums and vocals. Like dominoes, the music often writes itself, one riff leading to another. I have a lot more trouble writing lyrics. I have to push myself hard for that.

3. You work with many different musicians. How do you choose who you want to start a project with? Do you have any collaborations on your wish list?

Well, this is something from recent years. After being in a number of unproductive bands, I started making music on my own. But the right people have crossed my path in the past 10 years. Most of them since the pandemic. It has to click on a personal level. But also I like to work with people that are extremely focused and dedicated. Someone like Ward (Asgrauw, Void Wanderer) is the same like me in this perspective. We both are switched in a higher gear and somewhat impatience.

Following a musical path together from the first note to a physical record in your hands. That’s what it’s about. The Color Of Rain is an excellent example of this. Since this project, we have jumped forward with seven-league boots in terms of knowledge. Both musical skills and production-wise. Other bands benefit from that and together we get better and better together. That’s wat our Zwotte Kring circle is all about. I actually feel complete with all the musical friends around me. I have no other wishes. This sounds almost sentimental, but that’s how I feel sincerely.

4. The Color of Rain, Meslamtaea, Asgrauw, Stuporous, Schavot, Annwfyn. All projects with your name underneath and all incomparable to each other. You have shown that you can work with many styles. Are there any untrodden paths in the woods full of metal genres that you would like to explore someday?

I’m genre-fluid in terms of musical taste. The interest in metal comes in waves and it was gone for a while to be honest. That’s when I started recording Annwfyn. At that time I was mainly listening to God is an Astronaut and bands like Clannad. Within metal I can do anything I want with the projects that we have. Outside of that, I love fusion and I look at the drummers in that genre with great admiration. One day I would like to do something like that, but I don’t have the talent, haha!

5. Besides metal, one of your great passions is photography and in particular photography of Bonsai, plants that you also cut and shape yourself. Are there similarities in design and aesthetics between your music and your photography? Can you compare the approach for both?

That is a good question. Just like in music, I am self-taught as a photographer and have developed my own style. But because I do editorial work for motorcycle magazines I don’t have all the creative freedom. This is different with my bonsai art, in which I am also self-taught. Let me explain first: this is something else that the trees in a pot you find at Ikea. It is an art form with artists who studied for years and have dedicated their lives to it. I have trees that are really old and it is an honour, but also a responsibility, to take care of them and pass it through to the next generation. It is an art form with a history and tradition. Within this art movement there is a large orthodox following with strict rules. And there are a number of artists who follow their own path. This conflicts and it is a scene that is not as peaceful as it seems from the outside. You can guess which movement I follow. For me it is a form of expression, not bound by rules. It’s a synergy between a tree and an artist. From the roots to the apex, such a tree tells a story, with us as artists as storyteller.

This is exactly the same for me as writing music. Expression, without limitation by rules. Though, where music can cause me stress, bonsai can clear my head. I am very impatient as a person. But bonsai teaches me patience. I don’t think in days, but in steps of ten… twenty years.

6. The lyrics and artwork of bands like Stuporous, The Color of Rain and especially Meslamtaea are very dark and paint a tragic and negative picture of the state of humanity. How do you view the current state of our society and the world?

When I watch the news, I always realize that this world is a dead & rotten place and it feels like we’ve already passed the point of no return.

7. How do you view the state of the current Dutch and international black metal scene?

It is impossible to keep up with the enormous amount of releases these days. I notice that many bands struggle to be heard. Also the very good ones. Sometimes you hear a top release from a band that no one knows because they are not media experts. Of course it shouldn’t be that way. Quality should be heard.

The Dutch and Flemish scene is the closest to me to me and I therefore find it the most interesting to follow. Bands like Salacious Gods and Sammath have been around for ages and still make the best records ever. Many younger bands also know what they are doing. Hellevaerder makes exactly the music like in the 90’s. Others, like Teitan, Cthuluminati and Grey Aura, have a very fresh contemporary style that I can also appreciate.

The scene is more vivid than how I remember it from before. In the 90’s it was a lot about image and edginess and there was competition between bands. Some veterans long back to those days, but I think the scene is better now. A lot of bands help each other. Many people are active being reviewers for magazines, run a vlog channel or a radio show. It’s cool to see how it all comes together. Metalheads these days no longer have blinders on and are curious about everything that is released, within different genres. That is awesome.

8. Where does the fascination for old sagas and legends come from that we clearly hear in your work in Asgrauw, Schavot and Sagenland?

The ‘Twente’ region where I grew up was full of mysticism. Every December the midwinter horn sounded all over the village and in the mornings the Witte Wieven (ghost ladies) danced across the land close to where we lived. I was often outside and became fascinated by nature and especially old trees who have lived on the earth for hundreds of years and have seen a whole history. But unfortunately it all feels like something from the past. Mysticism seems to be something that no longer has a place in today’s plastic digital age. Schavot has a nostalgic meaning for me: both musically and lyrically.

9 .An open goal shot, but is there already new work in the pipeline?

Y.E.S.! The best is yet to come and we have made so much progress production-wise that we are super stoked to let you hear all our new music. At the time of this interview we are finishing the mix of a new Asgrauw album that is planned for late 2024. This is being mastered by Devi (from Teitan) with new mastering techniques, that he has already practiced on the The Color Of Rain / Meslamtaea split for 2024. This is the best work yet from both bands! Stuporous has released their debut album in January and in the meantime new material for Schavot is also being recorded. I’ll rest when I’m dead.

Interview: Gerhans

1. Hi Gerhans. You have been in music for some time, but in black metal you are a new name. Can you introduce yourself?

Of course! I am Gerhans, 34 years old and living in Vriezenveen (in the Twente region of the Netherlands) with my wife and son. I have been playing bass and guitar for 20 years and have played for years in bands such as Amped, Incission, As Empires Fall and Sad State of Decay. Nowadays I play guitar and write the music and lyrics for The Color of Rain and lead guitar for Meslamtaea. I also volunteer at a few festivals; Randrock, Vloek van Twenthe and the R&Ms Festival. I am a radio DJ at the Black Monday Radio Show, one of the 3 guys of the Zwotcast and I have recently started trying to write some reviews for Rock Portaal.

2. Your background in metal is more in deathcore and melodic death metal. This music, if you ask me, has a completely different starting point and aesthetic than black metal, and the fanbase is a different type of group. How do you see this? What appeals to you about black metal?

I’m originally more of a ‘core kid’ and only really got to know black metal later in life, although bands like Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir were in my discman from an early age. In the past, the aesthetics between those genres were indeed miles apart, but nowadays there are more and more similarities, both stylistically and aesthetically. I have never really cared about genres, so one day I’ll wear a Fit for an Autopsy sweater and the next day a Mgła shirt. I think the point of metal is to break conventions and stigma. What appeals to me about black metal is often the atmosphere and the rebelliousness. The raw emotion that runs through it is something that seems to be more tangible in black metal than in other styles.

3. Can you unite your background in these death and core styles in the blackened music you write for The Color of Rain? How do you ensure that despite the far-reaching eclectic mix, the extremely dark atmosphere still prevails?

This comes much more naturally than might be expected when you listen to the music for the first time. My idea with The Color of Rain was to approach music more from an atmospheric point rather than purely based off riffs. For me, this starting point fits more into the black metal concept of music than those other styles. However, from my musical upbringing in the death and core styles, I do have a clear framework in which I approach the guitar myself. So this ‘clash of styles’ arose quite organically. The outlook of both the music and the lyrics is quite nihilistic and dark in nature. That ‘color’, the dark atmosphere, is always the starting point when I write new music. It’s not about the black metal style, the music is really too eclectic for that. It’s about the vibe and the message that one can really only compare to black metal.

4. Speaking of The Color Of Rain. Can you tell us something about its origins and what this musical group means to you?

The band was formed during the pandemic. I was looking for an outlet to express how I viewed the current state of the world. I had been in contact with Floris Velthuis for a while via the Facebook group The Rock & Metal Society and after sending some initial ideas, we decided to continue with this together as a project. Floris and I were very charmed by Devi Hisgen’s vocal approach to the work of Teitan and Cthuluminati. When Devi indicated that he also wanted to do this for us at TCOR, we immediately knew that he would be the man for the job!

The entire communication surrounding the debut album went so incredibly smooth. We were on the same page most of the time and that felt truly magical. This is still the case; we complete each other by working together and deepening our collaboration. It really feels like a dream team to be able to work with these gentlemen and in my own (not so) humble opinion this can also be clearly heard in the new work that will be released in 2024.

5. You write the lyrics for TCOR yourself. Lyrically, black metal from the past has been mainly negative, depressive, anti-religious or satanic. Do you deviate from these standard themes for TCOR?

Yes and no. In the sense that yes I do deviate from that theme because the lyrics, despite the Lovecraft influences, are much less imaginative. It is not ‘evil for the sake of being evil’ but much more contemplative in nature. The lyrics do have the same negative, dark message, but instead of most bands that attach a fantasy figure to this, our lyrics are steeped in nihilism. Conservatism, the evil of organized religion and the selfish nature of man are inspiration enough. Our world could have been so beautiful, but humanity ruins everything for the sake of its own convenience and the fear of others. We really make a mess of it. This is the same with faith and religion. From a humane point of view, these concepts should ensure that we treat each other a little better, but unfortunately we see that where love is preached, the message is often full of hate and accusing fingers. Wars, racism, hatred towards everything that is not straight and male; the dogmas and rules imposed by religions only create division. Instead of seeing us as a ‘human race’ you see more division than ever and we still put ourselves in boxes like “us” and “them”. The whole notion that we as humans are the center of the universe is outdated and insane, but unfortunately more current than ever. Nature, the universe, everything around us is cracking under our tyranny and would be better off without us. If we were more aware of this, we would interact with each other and the world very differently.

6. Are lyrics subordinate to the music or are they of great importance to you?

Lyrics are of vital importance to me. Music should cause friction, amaze, make one think. Without a message, music feels less sincere in my opinion. Not that you always need lyrics for a message; some instrumental music can tell just as much story with one melody line than an entire concept album. That said, singing and lyrics are indispensable for my music. The way Devi interprets and conveys the lyrics fits perfectly with how I envisioned this music. Like me, Devi is quite outspoken about our message. If we zoom out, everything we are so concerned about is less than a drop in the cosmic ocean; in less than a sigh it’s over. We want to convey that nihilistic message in our music and in our lyrics. Reflecting on the dark side of humanity and the awareness that life doesn’t revolve around us is, I think, very healthy and felt like catharsis for all of us.

7. The debut album “Oceans Above” has been bizarrely well received by the press. What were your expectations and what does this do to you?

I’m still blown away by how well everything is received. I never expected that music of such an eclectic nature would be picked up like that. Of course, we stand fully behind our art, but this, from the start, felt more like a passion project than something for a wider audience. It’s music that we especially wanted to hear ourselves. The danger there is that it quickly becomes less accessible. Fortunately, that concern turned out to be unfounded, because we have people from all kinds of sides and subgenres who embrace the music. The extremely positive reviews, the number of streams/views and most of all the overwhelming response from listeners (down to the 1st TCOR tattoo) are heart-warming.

8. TCOR is not a one-time project and has new material coming. What can you say about that now without revealing too much?

Yes! We just finished work on a split album that will be released next year. We’re doing this one together with another Zwotte Kring project and the 4 songs (5 if you count the intro) are definitely a step-up for us. The music goes beyond the beaten path even more than the debut, but I also think it sounds more focused. The atmosphere is even darker, as are the lyrics. There is a certain layering in the music that we are very proud of. In addition, we have really made a gigantic leap forward in terms of mix and master. Devi and Floris have really done a lot of work in this.

9. You played solos on Schavot for the “Verloren Vertellingen” 4-way split. How did this come about? Can you relate to this music, since Schavot is really traditional black metal?

As I mentioned earlier, the typical black clicked with me a little later. Nevertheless, bands like Cradle, Dimmu and Emperor have long been some of my favorites. I personally think Schavot is one of, if not the, coolest black metal to come from our own country. I honestly think that there are few projects or bands worldwide that know how to wrap that 90s black metal zeitgeist in a modern sauce more than Schavot does. When Floris asked me to write a solo for both songs, I didn’t have to think about it for a second. They practically wrote themselves. In any case, I believe in the idea that we are the scene together and am therefore a great supporter of such collaborations. I hope to be involved in more projects in the future!

10. In addition, you recently joined the unorthodox black metal group Meslamtaea as a permanent member, a band which has been operating in the Dutch underground since 1998. This is a completely different style of black metal, which regularly shakes hands with jazz and soul. What is your contribution to this band and do the different bands require a different playing style from you?

Yeah, cool, huh? I am really proud to be part of this. Even though I am a real fan of all of Ward and Floris’ bands and projects, Meslamtaea was my first contact with their work. The bleakness of the cover-art, the completely unique vibe the songs have: I was immediately impressed by this group. It is a completely different approach to music than how I normally write my parts. Therefore it’s great to be involved with. Working out my contributions as lead guitarist feels very adventurous and innovative. I learned a lot and had to brush up on my knowledge of jazz and fusion guitar. While the solos for Schavot wrote themselves, this was certainly not the case with Meslamtaea. Ultimately, I am very proud of the result of this new work. I tried to mix those vintage, jazzy sounds with a black metal aesthetic and keep it all in my own playing style, so I’m curious to hear the reactions!

11. You are also active in the field of radio and podcasts. What is it you do? As if that wasn’t enough, you are a moderator for the Rock & Metal Society and you are organizing a Festival. What do you want to say about this?

I can be heard on Black Monday Radio one or two evenings a month. A super cool radio show that revolves around old and new music within the metal and punk scene. I try to showcase newer work, pay attention to The Rock & Metal Society (bands from this society) and, above all, offer a stage to other Dutch bands. I regularly invite bands for an interview. Everything with a stocked fridge and, above all, a lot of shitting around and having fun.

In addition, Ward, Floris and I from the Zwotte Kring have just finished our first podcast, the Zwotcast. Here too, the idea is to give a platform to new music and especially Dutch talent from the black metal community. Very cool to do and the first podcast has been online since December 29.

The R&MS Fest premiered for the first time in November 2023. The Rock & Metal Society, of which I am an admin, is an extremely enthusiastic and fun group on Facebook filled with like-minded people. Unlike many other groups, this has really grown into a community, with members who have built a personal bond with each other, new music projects emerging and people visiting each other at concerts and at home! The wish arose to organize a meeting. Thanks to the ‘fine nine’ – as we as nine organizers have come to call ourselves – this meeting grew into a real festival at Popei in Eindhoven. It was an epic afternoon and evening with lots of fun and live music from 6 amazing bands from the group. Because it turned out to be such an incredible success, we immediately decided that it would not be a one-time event and the next edition is already planned for November 9, 2024, with 6 incredibly cool bands!

Interview: Floris